@rds: Granted, I'm not an encoder, but what's the point? These older shows are not animated in HD. Resizing at the encode stage to 1280x720 or 960x720 (in this case) is not going to magically add any detail or make the content "high-def"; it can only add artificial sharpness via filters and distortion of the source material. Plus it's a complete waste of bandwidth/disc space since you get larger files to accomplish upscaling that your media player would do with a 480p file anyway.
As you said, 480 file is being upscaled when being watched - noone today watches in 640x480 windows, even the cheapest screens are 720+.
On the other hand - when viewer upscales mkv to watch, s/he upscales the COMPRESSED video, so compression atrefacts, etc, are also being upscaled!
As good as x264 is, there ARE artifacts and they ARE visible especially when fullscreened.
All would be solved if the upscale is done BEFORE encoding (i.e. compressing).
Additionally, in this case you can clean up picture by using filters, de-noising, sharpening. etc. (Don't look down on the filters, when used wisely they give excellent results).
Yes, one can use filters during playback... do you? Noone does. Too much trouble.
You can see the difference for yourself: check out here recent Zero-Raws' Lucky Star upscales vs older DVD rips (Exiled-Destiny's or Arigatou's, I think)
screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/37588
Look at the girls' faces. The comparison speaks for itself!
As for the filesize: Zero-Raws' upscale 251MB, crf20(!) at 1250Kbps; older DVD rip - 311MB, 2pass at 1600Kbps.
First of all - wow, I don't know how you got that "DVD upscale when playing" snapshot, but you should throw that player away, because E-D release shouldn't look that horrible.
Here are two snapshots of the same frame from my copy of E-D release:
http://min.us/mvk9QoF
The first picture was taken using "File-Save Image" in MPC-HC, and then resized to 1440x810 in Photoshop.
The second picture was made by pressing "Print Screen" while playing full-screen at 1280x1024, which is the maximum resolution my monitor supports.
Both of these pictures look way better than your images (including the Zero-Raws one).
Also, E-D rips are made from R1 DVD, while Zero-Raws are most probably made from R2 DVD. R2 sources often look better than R1.
Now, to answer your original question: "have you thought about scaling up to 720 before encoding?"
When the picure is upscaled before compression, x264 has to deal with more pixels. Since there is more data to compress, x264 will either introduce more artifacts, or need much higher bitrate to retain the same quality.
Besides, upscales are generally frowned upon by the community. They are not accepted on baka are now banned on nyaa too, which are two trackers I use for my releases.
Take these two facts together, and you can guess the answer: no, I never thought about it :)
well, if you have E-D release, obviously, mine is not the same (but I thought it was E-D, ... hm..). and I also use MPC-HC. the snapshot was done with a different player, but in MPC-HC fullscreen looks the same (shit).
keep in mind that Zero's upscale is crf 20 (!) 20!!
also, FYI, the higher resolution of the source, the better results you'd get from x264 at the same crf. Ask Dark Shikari, if you don't believe me.
but, if upscales are generally frowned upon by the community, one cannot do nothing.
How does one dare?! Banish the thought!
Ok, I understand. Thanx for the consideration. Pls continue with your releases!
Thanx for your hard work!
ReplyDeleteQuestion: have you thought about scaling up to 720 before encoding?
@rds: Granted, I'm not an encoder, but what's the point? These older shows are not animated in HD. Resizing at the encode stage to 1280x720 or 960x720 (in this case) is not going to magically add any detail or make the content "high-def"; it can only add artificial sharpness via filters and distortion of the source material. Plus it's a complete waste of bandwidth/disc space since you get larger files to accomplish upscaling that your media player would do with a 480p file anyway.
ReplyDelete@Zalis: yes... and no.
ReplyDeleteAs you said, 480 file is being upscaled when being watched - noone today watches in 640x480 windows, even the cheapest screens are 720+.
On the other hand - when viewer upscales mkv to watch, s/he upscales the COMPRESSED video, so compression atrefacts, etc, are also being upscaled!
As good as x264 is, there ARE artifacts and they ARE visible especially when fullscreened.
All would be solved if the upscale is done BEFORE encoding (i.e. compressing).
Additionally, in this case you can clean up picture by using filters, de-noising, sharpening. etc. (Don't look down on the filters, when used wisely they give excellent results).
Yes, one can use filters during playback... do you? Noone does. Too much trouble.
You can see the difference for yourself: check out here recent Zero-Raws' Lucky Star upscales vs older DVD rips (Exiled-Destiny's or Arigatou's, I think)
screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/37588
Look at the girls' faces. The comparison speaks for itself!
As for the filesize: Zero-Raws' upscale 251MB, crf20(!) at 1250Kbps; older DVD rip - 311MB, 2pass at 1600Kbps.
Did I win you over yet?
First of all - wow, I don't know how you got that "DVD upscale when playing" snapshot, but you should throw that player away, because E-D release shouldn't look that horrible.
ReplyDeleteHere are two snapshots of the same frame from my copy of E-D release:
http://min.us/mvk9QoF
The first picture was taken using "File-Save Image" in MPC-HC, and then resized to 1440x810 in Photoshop.
The second picture was made by pressing "Print Screen" while playing full-screen at 1280x1024, which is the maximum resolution my monitor supports.
Both of these pictures look way better than your images (including the Zero-Raws one).
Also, E-D rips are made from R1 DVD, while Zero-Raws are most probably made from R2 DVD. R2 sources often look better than R1.
Now, to answer your original question: "have you thought about scaling up to 720 before encoding?"
When the picure is upscaled before compression, x264 has to deal with more pixels. Since there is more data to compress, x264 will either introduce more artifacts, or need much higher bitrate to retain the same quality.
Besides, upscales are generally frowned upon by the community. They are not accepted on baka are now banned on nyaa too, which are two trackers I use for my releases.
Take these two facts together, and you can guess the answer: no, I never thought about it :)
well, if you have E-D release, obviously, mine is not the same (but I thought it was E-D, ... hm..). and I also use MPC-HC. the snapshot was done with a different player, but in MPC-HC fullscreen looks the same (shit).
ReplyDeletekeep in mind that Zero's upscale is crf 20 (!) 20!!
also, FYI, the higher resolution of the source, the better results you'd get from x264 at the same crf. Ask Dark Shikari, if you don't believe me.
but, if upscales are generally frowned upon by the community, one cannot do nothing.
How does one dare?! Banish the thought!
Ok, I understand. Thanx for the consideration. Pls continue with your releases!
cheers